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heck back soon for all the details of the ongoing war over the Wikipedia article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LHC Buy viagra plus without prescription, This article used to have a significant safety section.  But recently, safety was moved to it's own article:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safety of the Large_Hadron_Collider

Changes are now being made to delete key information even in the separate Safety article and a coordinated effort is underway to censor Jtankers and others who have been contributing editors for some time now.

-Another

The discussion below details an incident at Wikipedia. Recently I was blocked from adding references to the Wikipedia article "Safety of the Large Hadron Collider", that challenged the probability that Hawking Radiation might cause micro black holes to evaporate. A CERN employee and Wikipedia administrator became annoyed with my efforts and reported my conduct to the Wikipedia Administrators' Incidents board under the heading "LHC Fringe Theorists".

At this same time, a notice was placed on my talk page that my talk page had been
nominated for deletion, buy no rx viagra plus. I'm not sure what would happen if my talk page was deleted, as I don't think this has ever been done to an active user before, but it may have left my account crippled in its ability to communicate, buy viagra plus without prescription.

After the two actions above, I stopped editing the Wikipedia article. If the intent was to silence me, they made some progress. The discussion below details what I believe is an attempt at censorship by persons with a clear conflict of interest IMHO (In My Humble Opinion). Viagra plus discount, Terms Used:
* COI: Conflict of Interest
* NPOV: Neutral Point of View
* DR: Dispute Resolution

- JTankers

... Buy viagra plus without prescription, Update... (July 14, 2008)

The Wikipedia article Safety of the Large Hadron Collider now contains a summary of some of the basic safety arguments of the organized safety opposition, after a long battle with CERN supporters to fight censorship of these concerns.

The concerns are not just from legal action and from what is raised in the media as the article still tends to imply. The safety concerns are lead by world recognized, credible scientists, viagra plus sale. Dr. Otto Rossler is an eminent award winning professor of theoretical sciences and a significant contributor to Chaos Theory, buy viagra plus without prescription. Professor Rossler's research indicates that safety has not been reasonably proven, and danger is very plausible.

Published peer reviewed papers from science professors that question one of the of the primary safety arguments (Hawking Radiation) are still censored from the article. A 2004 Delphi study showing up to 50% doubt among physicists polled is still censored from the article. Buying viagra plus online, (Physicists do have reasonable doubt about Hawking Radiation, contrary to what the article implies).

From the Wikipedia article Safety of the Large Hadron Collider Buy viagra plus without prescription, :

Concerns raised in the media

Nuclear physicist Walter L. Wagner has argued that if Micro black holes are produced at the LHC, they might not decay as predicted by CERN, since Hawking radiation is not an experimentally-tested or naturally observed phenomenon and might not exist.[8][22]

Professor Otto Rössler has stated that micro black holes created in the LHC would grow exponentially, accreting the Earth in 50 months to 50 years, and he has sought scientific debate on his research[23] before the LHC particle collisions begin.[24]

- JTankers
----

Update June 20, viagra plus order, 2008

What part is undue weight. This just feels like censorship of concerns from the general public and from credible PHD level scientists. The conflict of interest could not be more clear. I have nothing to gain that I do not share with the defendants (safety of Earth), CERN has potential Nobel prizes, Buy cheapest viagra plus on line, future employment, fame and fortune, potentially at the cost of Earth 50 months to 50 years from now. The debate could not be more relevant now and could not affect more people, buy viagra plus without prescription. To bury the concerns another link level deeper would certainly be better than completely censoring the concerns, and I can accept the solution. But I think the undue weight is given to the concerns of CERN and they will not be satisfied until the article appears to suggest that there is no conceivable danger, when in fact safety arguments are no more substantial than unverified original research, order viagra plus no rx. CERN's safety analysis is original research that has not been accepted by peer reviewed journal for publication, only approved by a 4/5 majority internal assessment which called some major argument unverified and peer review of the self published work is still in progress. A CERN employee editor has even had links to published peer reviewed papers that challenge the primary safety argument, the probability that Hawking Radiation exists removed against editor consensus. Buy viagra plus without prescription, How can that be justified. According to Professor Dr. Find viagra plus, Otto Rössler the results of CERN's actions could result in the greatest crime against humanity imaginable. Dr. Rossler is arguably among the world's most eminent living contributors to theoretical sciences, a former university visiting professor of theoretical physics (a fact suspiciously removed from Dr. Rossler's Wikipedia bio June 2, 2008 without prior discussion) and founded a new field of theoretical physics in collaboration with MIT Physics Professor David_Finkelstein who is historically significant for his contribution to black hole theory, buy viagra plus without prescription. The public and other scientists have the right to know that scientific consensus is credibly challenged by multiple credible PHD level theoretical scientists. More importantly, we deserve credible concerns to be addressed before collisions begin, buy viagra plus cheap. Wikipedia should not be a public relation tool to influence public opinion and limit information to other physicists by censoring descent. This is a very significant issue.

--Jtankers (talk Buy viagra plus without prescription, ) 16:58, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

-----

Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentsArchive446

LHC fringe theorists

User:Jtankers is part of a fringe theory group on the web who believe that the LHC will possibly destroy the world. He's continually adding original research links and adds material in a WP:ATT join the dots type of logic to make readers come to his conclusions. Viagra plus without prescription, For 6 months we (myself and a number of other editors) have been trying to explain to him the meaning of reliably sourced and verifiable information. Yet he still continues to add his links and tries to sway the article to his own agenda, buy viagra plus without prescription. A quick google search of his name (James Tankersley) and a look at his user page shows his involvement in these fringe groups.

I myself work at CERN but have I believe at no time compromised my position either as an administrator or via COI by the fact I work at CERN. This can be seen on the talk page as well, when James made some unbased accusations and eventually he recalled them when pressed to show where I had abused my position.

Myself and a number of other editors have repeatedly try to explain to Jtankers why his links are not suitable, and have given him far more leeway than WP:FRINGE recommends, where to buy viagra plus. Buy viagra plus without prescription, But all we have in return is alot of handwaving and how we are repressing him and the article is biased agianst his position. Though we have repeatedly explained to him the type of links he should find to promote his position, yet is unable to do so. We revert and he goes past 3RR, and we explain to him about 3RR and yet we are threatening him.

Yet the OR links keep coming, Low cost viagra plus, we keep trying to explain why they aren't acceptable but it's falling on deaf ears. You may also wish to read the LHC talk page as this is where it started before the subject matter was split away. Any help pointers etc would be appreciated, buy viagra plus without prescription. ^Khukri 17:25, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

I got as far as where JTankers alleges a Vast ecritKabalConspir'cee to get him and his, and got sick of it. There are three regular editors there, WWheaton, order viagra plus from canada, Khukri, and Phenylalanine desperately trying for ... over a week. to get this guy to pay attention. Buy viagra plus without prescription, It's a great deal of CIVIL POV PUSH, till he gets to the conspiracy to suppress him. He refuses to acknowledge a lot of their gaps, Viagra plus for order, instead purporting some great theoretical idea and demanding they all disprove it. He seems, at this point, to be actively ignoring policies. The only way he couldn't understand the policies by now is if he's deliberately refusing to ever read them, which may well be possible, but then, viagra plus online sale, he's deliberately being disruptive. Another editor came in and offered an opinion, but that too, seems to have fallen on deaf ears. The editor could well do with a topic ban, buy viagra plus without prescription. ThuranX (talk) 17:43, Certified viagra plus, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

More on this: JTankers has brought this, in one day, to : AN, 3RR, NPOV, and COI in the last 24 hours, in what's got to be the Memorial day sale of Forum Shopping.

I note that the user's User page is being used as a SOAPBOX for his viewpoint, compare viagra plus prices, since it cannot be achieved in the article. ThuranX (talk) 17:49, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

The editor has been notified. ThuranX (talk) 17:50, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

I MfD'd the user page, Cost viagra plus, as you are right, it is a blatant WP:SOAP violation. (There is an ongoing controversy about another user's page which has WP:SOAP-ish problems, and I feel I would be a terrible hypocrite if I did not take action against this page as well) --Jaysweet (talk) 17:58, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

I immediately removed all content I thought might violate WP:SOAP as soon as it was brought to my attention. --Jtankers (talk Buy viagra plus without prescription, ) 12:10, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

But where to next, we've tried to explain and he claims he wants dispute resolution but when a new editor HaeB came in and explained the position he was ignored and the information was re-added. I've said from the outset when it was included in the LHC article that it deserves an a section/article, although it does fall squarely into the realms of fringe theories it has received main stream press hence deserves a mention, buy viagra plus pills. But it's been a continual fight to try and keep these theories in perspective, and it's far in breach of WP:UNDUE and yet we cannot seem to explain this clearly enough. ^Khukri 18:33, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

What's this about black holes??. Is that for real. --Dragon695 (talk) 20:48, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Really, buy viagra plus without prescription. Pharmacy viagra plus, That's the best response we can get at AN/I. read all that material. I did. (Well, msot of it. Buy viagra plus without prescription, after a while, it's repetititve.) ThuranX (talk) 21:54, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Nobody who has responded is an admin. The admin's are terribly overburdened, and the best us non-admins could do here would be to try to explain to the user what the problem is -- which has already been tried extensively and failed.

If you can get an admin's attention, find discount viagra plus, that would be great, but "That's the best response we can get at ANI/I?" is not likely to endear you to them ;p --Jaysweet (talk) 21:58, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

• Professor Dr. Otto_Rössler, Max Planck Institute, University of Tübingen


• Teresa E Tutt, order cheap viagra plus, Ph.D, Nuclear Engineering Texas A&M University


• Dr. Paul J, buy viagra plus without prescription. Werbos, National Science Foundation


• Nuclear physicist and lawyer Walter L. Wagner


• James Blodgett, Find viagra plus no prescription required, Master's degree in statistics and leader the Mensa Special Interest Group Global Risk Reduction.


• Many others, including some wish to remain anonymous.

There is an effort to censor the views of recognized experts on Hawking Radiation. Buy viagra plus without prescription, Credible scientists including Professor Dr. Otto_Rössler who warn of potential danger from operation of the Large Hadron Collider have been censored from the article in violation of virtually every aspect of WP:NPOV in my opinion, viagra plus uk. Peer reviewed published references that meet WP:VERIFY and challenge Hawking Radiation are being censored by members with apparent WP:COIN concerns. The validity of Hawking Radiation is a primary safety argument and a significant component of legal challenges to CERN currently before US Federal Courts in Hawaii. Wikipedia admin and CERN employee Khukri (talk) recused himself of admin duties when I asked him to intervene against rule violations by user Phenylalanine (talk) during the period of July 4th through July 9th 2008.

Details of activities in apparent violation of WP:NPOV by editors with potential WP:COIN concerns are detailed at Wikipedia:Conflict_of_interest/Noticeboard#Safety_of_the_Large_Hadron_Collider and Wikipedia:Conflict_of_interest/Noticeboard and Talk:Safety_of_the_Large_Hadron_Collider, buy viagra plus without prescription. Thank you, --Jtankers (talk) 01:24, Order viagra plus without prescription, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

I see an argument from special knowledge above. I see an attack on Khukri for doing the right thing. I see forum shopping. I do not see Jtankers acting ina responsible manner. Buy viagra plus without prescription, The assertions of censorship aren't borne out by the talk page, where his sources are ripped apart by numerous editors who oppose his edits. ThuranX (talk) 01:56, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Editor Phenylalanine (talk) removed the content without discussion multiple times and editor Wwheaton (talk) argued for keeping the references. What actions were not responsible, viagra plus cheap drug. I am not getting help and assistance, just attacks. There is a clear conflict of interest, the issue is before US Federal Courts and CERN editors outnumber the opposition. Shouldn't we error on the side of inclusion rather than on the side of possible censorship, buy viagra plus without prescription. --Jtankers (talk) 03:19, Approved viagra plus pharmacy, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

No. Here we err on the side of Wikipedia policy; one policy is WP:NPOV, which specifically charges us to avoid undue weight given to fringe claims. You shouldn't need to have this explained any further. If you continue to ignore Wikipedia policies, you may be blocked for tendentious editing. — Scientizzle Buy viagra plus without prescription, 04:31, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

I do not wish to violate Wikipedia policy. There are no fringe claims that I am aware of, buy cheapest viagra plus online, I believe that the article violates WP:NPOV by excluding references to published peer reviewed papers that directly challenge safety arguments (Hawking Radiation) used by CERN related to operational safety and to argue for dismissal of the lawsuit currently before US Federal Court in Hawaii. I wish to pursue formal dispute resolution, I am not sure exactly how this is done, but in the mean time I plan to limit my efforts primarily to the discussion page. (fyi: Of a quarter million AOL voters, Cheapest viagra plus price, 61% do not feel that the risks have been reasonably addressed, not fringe theories and not fringe concerns). --Jtankers (talk) 04:50, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

While it may or may not be undue to dispute the existence of Hawking radation on the article Hawking radiation, peer-reviewed papers that dispute it do not belong in an article on something else. And that's because, NPOV concerns aside, a tangent on a merely related topic constitutes original synthesis if it is placed there to draw a conclusion unsupported by those high quality sources, buy viagra plus without prescription. That is to say, there is a difference between Hawking radation doesn't exist and Hawking radation doesn't exist; the LHC will kill us all! Aside from the one blog, viagra plus us, none of the sources I've seen from you even mention the LHC. So until you find a high quality source to demonstrate that this belief is significant, it is adequately covered by the statement already present and a link to the article on the topic. You can carry your Hawking-radiation-doesn't-exist argument to that page if you wish. Someguy1221 (talk) 05:07, Viagra plus prescription, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

The article Safety of the Large Hadron Collider currently contains the statement:

• "One concern is that Hawking radiation is not an experimentally-tested or naturally observed phenomenon, and might not exist at all".

It seems reasonable to me that Professor Dr. Otto_Rössler Buy viagra plus without prescription, 's work would be a reasonable reference to support that statement. He argues that mini black holes created by the Large Hadron Collider might become charged, grow exponentially and destroy the planet. His theory Abraham-Solution to Schwarzschild Metric Implies That CERN Miniblack Holes Pose a Planetary Risk has been published on the web for several weeks and Dr. Rossler had an appointment to meet with CERN scientists July 4th to discuss safety issues Grösstes Verbrechen der Menschheit, Chaos, cheap viagra plus tablets, conspiracy, black holes. CERN's [Review of the Safety of LHC Collisions] also addresses charged micro black hole, a concept that does not appear to have existed before Dr. Rossler published his work, and it appears to be in direct response to Dr, buy viagra plus without prescription. Rossler's theory. Viagra plus online without prescription, It seems reasonable to me that this reference should be included, as both his report and CERN's reports are almost equally new and both published similarly on the web and both in the process of peer review.

Variations of the following references have been in the article previously. Hawking Radiation is a significant safety factor, if it is found to not be valid, delay of the Large Hadron Collider would be much more likely. Both of the references speak at least to some degree about the "probability" that Hawking Radiation might be found to be invalid.

• Do black holes radiate?, Dr, cheap viagra plus in canada. Buy viagra plus without prescription, Helfer Rep. Prog. Phys. 66 943-1008, Published 12 May 2003 by Reports on Progress in Physics The possibility that non-radiating `mini' black holes exist should be taken seriously; such holes could be part of the dark matter in the Universe".

• Universality of the Hawking effect, William G. Viagra plus cost, Unruh and Ralf Schutzold, published 24 January 2005 by The American Physical Society "Therefore, whether real black holes emit Hawking radiation remains an open question and could give nontrivial information about Planckian physics."

An AOL poll is hardly a meritable source for your arguments, I'd wager that a sizable minority, if not majority, still think Saddam Hussein was behind 9/11, that Bush is doing a great job, cheap viagra plus from usa, that global warming's a myth from the liberals, and that the earth was created in 7 days. Big deal, buy viagra plus without prescription. Uninformed people given questions that push that the world could end immediately, and would that be bad. will answer that the end of everythign would be bad. Viagra plus pill, Duh. ThuranX (talk) 05:12, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

I think the "founder and co-administrator of the web site LHCFacts.org" should probably not use conflict of interest as an argument against another editor. Buy viagra plus without prescription, The rest of it looks like a content dispute, as has been mentioned. SHEFFIELDSTEEL^TALK 14:24, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Ugh, I was afraid that this would be labelled as a content dispute & the involved parties told to go away. (I stumbled across this thread late last night, viagra plus without a prescription, & so was unable to offer any comments.) Looking at the discussion on Talk:Safety of the Large Hadron Collider, it's obvious that this is a far-to-familiar one person vs. a group of editors; the problem is not the content, but interpersonal dynamics. Can one person veto the assumption of a consensus. I don't know the answer, but I can think of reasons to say "yes" -- & "no".

More to the point in this case, while I have the utmost respect for anyone who has earned a position at CERN, Jtankers has a point here, after a fashion: the article lacks any explanation for why the people who filed an injunction think that the LHC is a potential danger, buy viagra plus without prescription. Cheap viagra plus tablet, It doesn't matter whether their reasoning is based on a Ouiji board, or that a mistake was in CERN's rationale by an undeniable expert (think Klaatu or Sheldon Cooper :). A sentence or two in the proper paragraph ought to meet that need. And please note carefully: doing this does not give undue weight to a fringe theory, it is explaining the motivation for one group's actions. Thus writing more than the amount I suggest, IMHO, would give undue weight. -- llywrch (talk Buy viagra plus without prescription, ) 18:33, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

I's more than a content dispute, it's more of the Civil POV Push we have seen increasingly on WP as the Pushers of all sorts of POVs get smart about how to abuse Wikipedia. He's a POV pusher, and end is near kinds guy who won't stop till forced to. ThuranX (talk) 01:40, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

I don't think anyone should feel they need to "go away" at this point, and I'm sorry if my post gave that impression. Either there is enough material to justify a WP:RFC/U or continued attempts to resolve this are needed. I just don't think AN/I is the right place for it just yet. SHEFFIELDSTEEL^TALK 16:04, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

It is clear it is a content dispute, but it's more along the lines of a number of editors trying to explain what is acceptable entries to a couple of editors with an agenda, buy viagra plus without prescription. But even though there is a COI with JTankers and even more so with another editor, they are very relevant to these issues currently ongoing and I feel can/should be able to contribute. However trying to explain what is acceptable and what is unacceptable is falling on deaf ears. Maybe RFC/U would be the place to take this, but I have a horrible feeling another group of editors explaining a position would be ignored as well. However Jtankers has said he will no longer edit the article until he "wins" dispute resolution, how one wins a resolution I don't know. Buy viagra plus without prescription, I brought this to ANI to avoid the request for mediation channel as it's lengthy and some form of resolution is needed rapidly. It's been through asking for third opinion, spammed across various noticeboard assitance, but still goes on.

I'm asking if someone could take this on and act as an unofficial arbiter, taking an impartial view pointing out to all issues, take some time to look through the LHC article talk page and it's archives, and look through Talk:Safety of the Large Hadron Collider. ^Khukri 17:38, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

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Translation from German: Buy viagra professional without prescription, Interview: Chaos, Verschwörung, schwarze Löcher

Interview: Chaos, conspiracy, black holes
Professor Dr. Otto E. Rossler over the dangers of the LHC at the CERN

Interview: Chaos, Verschwörung, schwarze Löcher, Part 1 of 5
The largest particle accelerator of the world, the Large hadron Collider (LHC) of the European organization for nuclear research (CERN), is to help, purchase viagra professional without prescription, to experience more over the emergence of the universe. Chaos researcher professor Otto E. Rossler sees a danger for the earth, whose fall he can introduce in the LHC however. Golem.de spoke with Rossler at the edge of the Transmediale, which carry the title "Conspire" in this year, buy viagra professional without prescription. For mankind the scientists at the CERN see however no danger, how a leading scientist of the LHC project explained opposite Golem.de. Order viagra professional on internet, It is already quite a while ago that the chaos research made publicly attentive on itself. Also over black holes for a long time nothing more was reported. Both is already nearly normal. Buy viagra professional without prescription, But the Transmediale of this year dedicated itself in the citizen of Berlin house of the cultures of the world to the topic of the conspiracy. "Conspire." is the slogan of this year of the steeped in tradition festival for art and digital culture. With professor Otto E. Rossler the curators invited completely special key note a Speaker to their conference. The habilitierte biochemist, chaos researcher and untiring reconnaissance aircraft in the service of the natural science and art are among other things well-known for it, buy viagra professional in us, the Rossler Attraktor to have discovered and the theoretical school of the Endophysik to have justified. Both brings up for discussion natural phenomena, which are only with difficulty understandable with common, rational approaches, buy viagra professional without prescription. A conspiracy within the physical world.

In May this yearly is to begin at the European organization for nuclear research (CERN) one of the most important attempts of physics. The Large hadron Collider (LHC) - the largest particle accelerator of the world - is used to experience by the collision of protons more over the emergence of the universe. Largest hopes lie in it to occupy on the one hand the Higgs mechanism - a theoretical explanation model for asymmetrical behavior of elementary particles - and on the other hand the Hawking' dematerializing theorem for black holes. Buy viagra professional without prescription, The latter in particular would be a sensation, since so far nobody knows exactly, what black holes are real and how they behave. After Hawking they would have to dematerialize directly after their emergence and be thus harmless. Viagra professional pills, But there is not the practical proof for it yet. Rossler states against the fact that black holes do not have to dematerialize necessarily and remain very probably stable could. And that could become quite dangerous.

Golem.de: Mr, buy viagra professional without prescription. professor Rossler, Sie it believes that the experiments with black holes at the CERN could be dangerous. What for is a man behind so a theory. Could you introduce yourselves please briefly.

Professor Otto Rossler: One is always unsympathisch itself, order viagra professional online. Buy viagra professional without prescription, I have several identities. I saw no character scientific. I make everything and am responsible therefore for nothing. Before 35 years I was habilitiert in theoretical biochemistry. That remained also actually my field of activity until today, but it was added then still some. For example the chaos research, which developed only in the course of the time, buy viagra professional without prescription.

Golem.de: How do you define chaos research. Where to order viagra professional, Rossler: That is, if they want, a form of applied mathematics. One concerns oneself there with oscillations. Only that the oscillations are somewhat more complicated. Buy viagra professional without prescription, One can get periodic oscillations with two interacting variables with impulse and place. If one adds however still further variables, as for example a pendulum at the swing, then one has already four variables and the condition for chaos, order viagra professional. Chaos is thus simply an oscillation possibility of systems, where several particles and variables can interact with one another.

Interview: Chaos, Verschwörung,
schwarze Löcher, Part 2 of 5

Golem.de: Wherein does the difference between chaos and coincidence lie. Online viagra professional, Rossler: These chaotic oscillations have it actually that they are very irregular. They do not repeat themselves only taken in very long periods and strictly at all, buy viagra professional without prescription. That works coincidentally. But if one has the appropriate equation and from different computers with the same computational accuracy and the identical in each case configuration lets compute, then one will produce the same trajectory from the same point of origin always exactly, the same picture, the same movement. Then it is thus no coincidence. One calls it also deterministic chaos, find no rx viagra professional. Buy viagra professional without prescription, The term comes from Edward Lorenz.

Golem.de: Is there also and term table chaos.

Rossler: With difficulty. Thus if one takes noise in, which is evenly and datistic, then it looks still exactly alike. One can thus hardly differentiate between it. In former times one even meant that it would have to be always disturbed and it has for a long time lasted to one accepted that the coincidence can come also from the inside and is not only added from the outside, buy viagra professional without prescription. Buy viagra professional no rx, But most sadistischen systems are naturally a little disturbed. Then the chaos is mixed with genuine coincidence. Then there is thirdly still the really genuine coincidence of quantum mechanics. That is still much, many coincidentally as the chaos. Buy viagra professional without prescription, Wolfgang Pauli calls that the primary coincidence. It is produced behind the world, while the chaos comes in the world still with right things. It is only infinitely sensitive in relation to small changes, viagra professional no rx. But the coincidence behind the world, in the quantum mechanics, which is not so far avowedly.
Niels bore, one of the pioneers of quantum physics, times from a journalist one asked, Viagra professional online without a prescription, what quantum mechanics is actually. There has bore it back-asked: "credit it a matchbox in the bag, an empty?" - "no?!" - "", here is one, buy viagra professional without prescription. Have do they a cube in the bag?" - "no." - "is here one. Then I can explain to you, what quantum mechanics is. Open the box completely carefully. Do please the cube completely carefully inside. Buy viagra professional without prescription, Close it completely carefully and then give you them me completely carefully." Then it took the box with the cube and turned it completely slowly. Around 180 degrees. Then it vibrated violently and turned back it just as carefully again, viagra professional tablets. Then it gave it to the journalist and said: "now you make the box please completely carefully again on... That is quantum mechanics." Quantum mechanics is thus the coincidence, which comes behind the back of the world. That is another coincidence than the chaotic coincidence, with which it happens still with right things, buy viagra professional without prescription.

Golem.de: They spoke on the Transmediale in Berlin about the danger of black holes. How do you explain, what a black hole is. Viagra professional online sales, Rossler: A very humorous man, John Wheeler, the famous pupil of Einstein, invented. Its most famous theorem reads: "a black hole does not have hair". Buy viagra professional without prescription, That is, each object, which falls there, loses all its characteristics. Up to three: the mass, the energy and the angular momentum. Wheeler is meanwhile 96 years old, viagra professional drug. For 50 years it waits on the Nobelpreis. He would have earned it completely surely, but he is always ignored. Why, I do not know, buy viagra professional without prescription.

Golem.de: And now with the experiments in the Large hadron Collider at the CERN is its chance again there.

Rossler: No, he has to do thereby nothing. Buy viagra professional, Although, but. If the world goes down shortly therefore, it with security still fast a Nobelpreis gotten. Buy viagra professional without prescription, There you are right.

Golem.de: Thus you fear, the world because of the black holes produced perhaps artificially in the LHC will go down.

Rossler: Yes, at the CERN a machine is built, cheap viagra professional on internet, with which the first time in the history of mankind black holes on earth could be produced. Nobody knows whether it goes. The probability lies about around the 10 per cent.

Interview: Chaos, Verschwörung, schwarze Löcher, Part 3 of 5

Golem.de: But how one can build, what for something, from which one does not know exactly at all it at all is, buy viagra professional without prescription.

Rossler: Exactly. One has there so theories, which forecast one that it could go and that it should even go. Tablet viagra professional, But completely surely one cannot be thereby. That is with all physical theories like that that one does not check up everything, what it depends on and one gropes so for a long time in the dark, until one catches and then of a realization speaks something. Buy viagra professional without prescription, Golem.de: And how one recognizes that one built a black hole now.

Rossler: Yes, that is a completely important question. It turned out that one cannot find the Dinger at all. Although one produced it, no rx viagra professional. Until it is too late. The Dinger hides itself, because they do not have radiation effect, buy viagra professional without prescription.

Golem.de: But the Hawking theorem to black holes means nevertheless something else.

Rossler: Yes, there is this famous theorem of Stephen Hawking. It set up that in the 70's-years. Afterwards dematerialize black holes, Order viagra professional no prescription required, which means that such micro black holes, how they are to develop in the LHC would verpuffen immediately. Buy viagra professional without prescription, This realization be based on the initially mentioned realizations of Wheeler. I can prove however that the objects swallowed by a black hole very probably keep their mass and their angular momentum, their energy however to lose.

Golem.de: They contradict it thus.

Rossler: Yes, it is however very heavy to attack it. Almost the entire scientific community stands behind it, viagra professional for sale. And as the durchoekonomisierte science enterprise today, is larger the power of the consent runs than those the reason, buy viagra professional without prescription.

Golem.de: Do you stand with this opinion alone there.

Rossler: No, there are also different scientists, who say. There are at least two internationally admitted. One is called Bill balance spring from Canada and the other one is called Adam D Helfer from the USA. Buy viagra professional without prescription, Both wrote essays, from which it follows that the black holes do not evaporate probably. Viagra professional medication, To only prove they cannot do it. Thus I am my knowledge the only one.

Golem.de: Which danger saves such an artificially generated black hole.

Rossler: The amazing is, no humans believes that that is dangerous. Recently a reader letter was in the magazine picture of the science, now in the January, which commentates the article, which was brought in September over the LHC, buy viagra professional without prescription. It says, which is very interesting that one expects from the experiment so marvelous things here, where still no humans know, discount viagra professional, what at all thereby comes out. But one knows one against the fact completely reliably that it is harmless. (laughs) that is absurd. One cannot say: I do not know, what comes out, but I know that it is harmless. Buy viagra professional without prescription, That aufgespiesst this reader in picture of the science well. Order generic viagra professional, This absolutely idiotische Naivitaet of physicists.

Interview: Chaos, Verschwörung, schwarze Löcher, Part 4 of 5

Golem.de: But which is the concrete danger. I understood that not yet completely.

Rossler: The danger is that a small black hole forms and then evenly not dematerialized. The probability is quite high that it flies away, but there is a completely small probability that it does not fly away, buy viagra professional without prescription. One wants to produce of it one million per year, viagra professional india. Those are enough, in order to say that of it one will not dematerialize completely surely. This would circle then in the earth and occasionally with an elementary particle, an atomic nucleus or a quark would collide and it would up-eat. The question, which remains, Buy viagra professional from india, is, how long it lasts then, until this small black hole grew sufficient strongly, in order to finally up-eat the whole world. Buy viagra professional without prescription, That sounds absurd, is however last end very probable. There is an estimation with BBC Horizon that this 50 million years will last. That is the official Worst Case Scenario. But they forget with the fact that there is chaos and non-linearity. Thus it grows many faster, viagra professional online pharmacy. I came in such a way on a factor of 50 months, buy viagra professional without prescription.

Golem.de: Thus does a black hole function in principle. It eats atoms.

Rossler: Yes, it can only eat, it can not decrease, it is, Viagra professional buy, it can dematerialize, but I broken-made, unfortunately that. Growth functioned thereby similarly as money by the interest and compound interest on the financial market increases. Buy viagra professional without prescription, That happens also not linear, but exponentially.

Golem.de: The remedy would be another black hole.

Rossler: No, there is no remedy. The thing is hopeless, viagra professional approved, after 50 months the earth on a centimeter would have shrunk. It would be nothing more there, not only no more life, there but also the earth would be away, only their weight would be - as small black hole.

Golem.de: What happens, if two black holes meet one on the other, buy viagra professional without prescription.

Rossler: Unite. Find cheap viagra professional online, Then there is a larger. There there is also a theorem, again from Hawking, which mentioned that black holes can grow in each case, they cannot remove. It set up that, before it discovered dematerializing. Buy viagra professional without prescription, Dematerializing negated this theorem as it were then. There it was no longer good as as before, best price for viagra professional. Naja, is correct not completely, it later also still different good things made, but in the case the first theory was better than the later.

Golem.de: But a black hole is not a real hole, but it is subject, Buy viagra professional no prescription required, only strongly consolidated.

Rossler: A black hole is as it were a so strongly compressed subject. So strongly that even the light can no longer away, buy viagra professional without prescription. There is there the black sign in such a way specified radius, which Karl black sign, a friend of Einstein discovered. It means that according to the Einstein theory there is a compression diameter, which is so strong for each mass that even the smallest mass tightens locally so strongly that the light of it cannot no more. Besides can be assigned still somewhat on it, viagra professional from canada. It lasts however eternally, until it arrives there. Buy viagra professional without prescription, And one knows that the light, which ascends from the edge of a black hole is not only infinitely red-shifted, thus in its wavelength slowed down and/or increased is, but that it needs also infinitely for a long time, until it comes out. One knows. But one believes strangely enough, a body could fall there in finite time, although the light needs infinitely for it... Buy viagra professional from canada, One does not see already, there is correct somewhat. There participates a calculation error. The error is however already 90 years old, buy viagra professional without prescription. Therefore it is improbable that the science accepts in the short term that it exists. Because it like that blamabel is.

Golem.de: Do black holes have actually such an enormously large attraction, how it is often implied straight in Science Fiction films.

Rossler: Those have exactly the same attraction, viagra professional side effects, as each mass of the same size. Buy viagra professional without prescription, Thus if the earth were a black hole with scarcely a centimeter of diameters, then the attraction would be unchanged. The moon would circle exactly the same around this point like now around the earth, because this point would be just as heavy as the earth.

CERN holds dangers for very small

Professor Otto Rossler addresses the CERN in Switzerland with his statements directly. Golem.de inquired therefore with Michelangelo Luigi Mangano, a leading scientist in the LHC project, Viagra professional canada, which position takes the CERN for the position of the critic.

Interview: Chaos, Verschwörung, schwarze Löcher, Part 5 of 5

Golem.de: Which hopes lie in the attempt to create black holes with the LHC.

Michelangelo Mangano (CERN): First it is the principal purpose to examine with the Large hadron Collider the Higgs mechanism - a theoretical explanation model for asymmetrical behavior of elementary particles -, buy viagra professional without prescription. But we will naturally try to take most out of the LHC. If it is possible to generate and then examine black holes, we will do that naturally, buying generic viagra professional. However we do not talk here about black holes, how they are described by Einstein or Hawking - thus those, which we can observe as extinguished star in the universe. In addition one braeuchte 10 to the power of 16 times more energy than we at the CERN for the order has. Buy viagra professional without prescription, We talk here about microscopically small black holes, from which there are so far only theoretical models, we thus at all do not know whether they exist at all.

If we discover it however with our attempts, then it would prove that our universe consists not only of four dimensions (three space dimensions plus the time), Discount viagra professional without prescription, but of many more dimensions. This would revolutionize the perception of our environment. Think only of pagings in the philosophy and art, which caused relativity theory. That would be a sensation. Similarly the Phoeniziern, the magnetism had discovered and owing to the compass their ships to thus navigate more surely could - without however to know that they had discovered thereby the condition for electricity and our modern civilization, buy viagra professional without prescription.

Golem.de: Why do you that it is not dangerous think, for creating black holes.

Mangano: We are conscious us of the concerns, order cheap viagra professional online, which circulate in the public. The CERN will publish a brochure in approximately one month to the topic. We have here all family, friends, children and used and we them to danger would never expose. Buy viagra professional without prescription, We concerned ourselves here very intensively with these questions. it believes 99.99 per cent of my colleagues that the black holes will dematerialize. Buy viagra professional generic, We accept nothing the defiance in the publication mentioned that they could remain stable. But even then they should be harmless: Black holes move very fast. Thus they would travel through theoretically directly by the earth. Black holes behave a little like the electrically neutral neutrino, buy viagra professional without prescription. They react only very slowly and can fly by several thousand kilometers iron, before they collide at all with somewhat. Those, which would be somewhat slower and were caught by the gravitational pull of the earth, remained existing in the earth core and could actually subject take up. But they became after 5 billion years - the time, until the sun expires - only a few kilograms weigh.

Golem.de: From where do you know that. Buy viagra professional without prescription, Mangano: If they would react more strongly, there would be no neutron stars in the universe. The universe is fully with cosmic rays, thus high-energy jets, which develop with the explosion of stars. One can observe these from the earth. Most of these jets have a substantially higher energy than we in the LHC ever producing could. Thus if the LHC can create black holes, these jets can do it also. Besides it can be observed that each neutron star, which we discovered in the universe, by a large number of such cosmic rays were already bombarded and with black holes be therefore full could. Neutron stars have however a much higher density. The subject there is 10,000 Millarden mark more closely than in the earth, why a black hole - if it would actually cause damage - 10 billion time "eat such a star faster" and would destroy quasi immediately. We know however from neutron stars, which are years old 100 million.

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The 2008 LHC Safety Report from CERN's LHC Safety Assessment Group is out.[1][2]

The SPC committee does not appear to recommend delaying high energy collisions at the Large Hadron Collider until after these safety theories can be confirmed.

The new report argues that when a stray cosmic ray matter particle collides with Earth or a Neutron star, viagra super active+ information, Viagra super active+ in us, dangerous black holes are not produced.

The report confirms that neutral micro black holes that might be created from cosmic ray impacts with Earth would exit Earth at near the speed of light, buy cheap viagra super active+ internet. And Dr, buy viagra super active+ without prescription. Order viagra super active+ in canada, Otto Rossler appears to argue that a micro black hole should be neutral unless it captures a charged particle such as an electron in orbit around the micro black hole. Capturing a charged particle in orbit around the black hole appears unlikely to be possible while traveling through Earth at relativistic speeds, cheapest generic viagra super active+, Viagra super active+ online cheap, and might not be possible in a Neutron star.

The Safety Report appears to argue that a micro black hole could become charged by consuming charged quarks, viagra super active+ cheapest price, Order no rx viagra super active+, but that might be a controversial assertion, since once matter passes the event horizon of a black hole, viagra super active+ price, Order discount viagra super active+ online, it should no longer have effects outside of the event horizon, so the black hole should remain neutral, buy viagra super active+ online australia. Viagra super active+ online stores, The safety report also asks us to accept what appears to me to be a questionable assumption, that a cosmic ray particle collision with Earth must produce a micro black hole if any possible collider collisions might produce one, buy viagra super active+ on line. Viagra super active+ alternative,

"cosmic rays do not produce such [dangerous] black holes, and hence neither will the LHC".

The LHC may create for the first time on Earth, discount viagra super active+ online, Cheap viagra super active+ no rx, slow moving micro black holes that might be captured by Earth's gravity, and since evaporation (Hawking Radiation) is disputed, buy viagra super active+ overnight delivery, Buy viagra super active+ on internet, and fast growth of charged micro black holes is predicted, I am still concerned, buy cheap viagra super active+, Viagra super active+ purchase, and very interested in what the world's scientists will conclude after studying this report in detail.

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(See comments below for re-posted comments from Enrique Fernandez, purchase viagra super active+ no rx, Cheapest viagra super active+, chair of the CERN Scientific Policy Committee and Fabio Zwirner, member of the CERN Scientific Policy Committee and coordinator of the SPC review panel), viagra super active+ prices. Viagra super active+ free delivery. Cheap viagra super active+ in uk. Purchase viagra super active+. Viagra super active+ free sample. Buy discount viagra super active+. No prescription viagra super active+.

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Buy clomid without prescription, I am assisting in educating about the potential danger and counter unsupportable public relations statements of "no danger", "don't worry..." concerning operation of the Large Hadron Collider. Clomid online sale, Unlike what CERN tells the public, the Large Hadron Collider Safety Assessment Group (LSAG) writes that current safety arguments are not valid proof of safety, clomid medicine. Certified clomid, Micro black holes might be created by the Large Hadron Collider, they might not evaporate, cost of clomid, Purchase clomid, they might grow quickly and we have not been damaged by cosmic rays because cosmic rays pass harmlessly through Earth. CERN does tell the public that a new safety report has been completed, clomid no rx required, Real clomid without prescription, but so far the final report is kept secret from the world's scientists.

The physicists involved, buy generic clomid, Buy clomid from canada, actually a majority of experimental physicists really really want to believe that this type of experimentation is safe, otherwise it could shut down a huge amount of science research, where to buy clomid.

The problem is that this experiment might be unsafe, actually it might be really really unsafe, buy clomid without prescription. Cheap clomid pill, A primary issue is that the energies are so high that the experiment may collapse some particles into 'micro black holes'. (CERN estimates possible creation at a rate of one per second), clomid overnight. Cheap clomid without prescription, If these exotic particles evaporate or grow extremely slowly, then there would be no problem, buy clomid cheap. Clomid generic, However several PHDs in Math and Physics and other theoretical sciences (I can provide quotes and links) believe that BOTH might be false. Buy clomid without prescription, Micro black holes may likely NOT evaporate and they likely might grow relatively QUICKLY.

That might mean that in a matter of just perhaps a few years or decades a single micro black hole could grow so large that it might actually collapse the entire Earth into it, clomid prices. Buy clomid generic, CERN wishes to start operating the LHC experiment later this year and is planning to release a study that will attempt to prove safety. But it might not be possible, generic clomid online. Cheapest clomid online, And the fear is that the experiment might go forward anyway, with the hope that it will prove to be safe.., sale clomid.

The alternative is hugely negative for the thousands employed by the experiments and who have been working for years to conduct their experiments, buy clomid without prescription. Buy clomid us, Big stakes for careers, science, pharmacy clomid, Lowest price clomid, prestige, funding, buy clomid once daily, Buying generic clomid, etc.

A court case before US Federal Courts to compel reasonable proof of safety has its first hearing on June 16, canadian clomid, Buy clomid lowest price, 2008 in Hawaii.

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A good discussion in layman's terms is available on YouTube video. Interview with Nuclear Physicist Walter L, clomid buy. Cheap clomid tablet, Wagner on Coast to Coast AM "LHC may cause mini black hole and swallow earth":

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