LHC Facts

This quote is from a self-proclaimed physicist working for CERN, posted on June 10, 2008 (emphasis added):

There is absolutely nothing on hold waiting for the LSAG report, we are moving ahead with all aspects of the accelerator and experiments. It’s not quite safe to assume there will be no collisions this year, but it’s certainly within the realm of possibility. I hope we do have collisions this year, we have a lot of things to understand about our detectors and the accelerator chain.

I found this quote interesting.  It is from a very active LHC advocate in response to someone bringing religion into the discussion.  Posted on May 16, 2008:

This is a rational debate… Religion has no place here… these people get under my skin.

Another’s Commentary

This Washington Times article seems pretty fair.  Even though he is quoting the 1 in 50 Million statistic which is as old as the RHIC controversy 8 years ago. 

PRUDEN: Something else to worry about

Friday, July 11, 2008

Blaming George W. for everything from the dog’s mange to an itch in places impolite to scratch is summer fun for a lot of people. So is listening to Barack Obama’s gaffes, blunders and splutters. But repetition can make anything boring.

So here’s something new, scarier even than the Rev. Jesse Jackson’s scheme to surgically alter Sen. Obama to make him eligible for the Ladies Auxiliary Choir. This doomsday would be the result of a misunderestimation beyond the ability of George W.

Physicists will fire up something called the Large Hadron Collider in Switzerland next month and if everything goes wrong we’ll be reduced to atoms, quarks and strangelets floating out there among the stars. Except that there won’t be any stars. They’ll be reduced to the ashes of infinity, too.

The odds against anything that bad actually happening are estimated by one eminent physicist as “only” 1 in 50 million.

Full article…

Another’s Commentary

This story on AOL News is a week old, but the stats it’s generating are not.  259, 121 votes and 61% believe the LHC is not worth the risk.  6,614 comments as of today.  Amazing.

Critics Fear Collider Could Doom Earth

AOL News - June 29, 2008

MEYRIN, Switzerland (June 29) - The most powerful atom-smasher ever built could make some bizarre discoveries, such as invisible matter or extra dimensions in space, after it is switched on in August.

But some critics fear the Large Hadron Collider could exceed physicists’ wildest conjectures: Will it spawn a black hole that could swallow Earth? Or spit out particles that could turn the planet into a hot dead clump?

Full article…

Another’s Commentary

Funny.  I guess Dennis Overbye of the New York Times was waiting with bated breath to find out if the new LSAG report would spell out safety or doom. 

Earth Will Survive After All, Physicists say

New York Times - June 21, 2008

That black hole that was going to eat the Earth? Forget about it, and keep making the mortgage payments — those of you who still have them.

Full article…

Another’s Commentary

This Russian reporter obviously talked to a physicist, and if you read between the lines they are clearly looking forward to micro black hole creation!

There will be no Armageddon

Russian News and Information Agency 18/06/2008

Black holes are expected to appear (or be detected appearing) in the LHC every second or so. As they evaporate they will leave a trail of radiation that will be registered by the accelerator’s monitoring devices. Such holes pose no threat, even in theory. On the other hand, they should help improve our understanding of the relationship between quantum mechanics and gravitation, because evaporation of black holes is a quantum mechanical process.

Full article…

Another’s Commentary

Two quotes of interest in this article from the Jerusalem Post.  It seems the author may be getting bad and premature information.

Israeli scientists to smash particles at super speeds

Jun 6, 2008 0:15 | Updated Jun 6, 2008 5:59

Like Etzion, Duchovni will be there when the “mini-Big Bang” takes place sometime within the next two months

So big and groundbreaking is the project that lawsuits
have been filed against it, alleging everything from a potential “environmental catastrophe” to fears that the world would be sucked into a tiny black hole created by the extreme energy in the accelerator.

The suits were all rejected, and “the particle collision will not cause all of Europe to be sucked into the tunnel,” laughs Duchovni.

Full article…

Another’s Commentary

This is so typical of news stories on this subject.  First they marginalize the “concerns” by using terms like “gobble”, then they repeat the old, defunct safety argument of Cosmic Rays and the less-than-sure-thing argument of Hawking Radiation.  You know these reporters are talking to physicists, so if that’s still the best they’ve got, that’s scary!

Inching Toward Perfect Harmony

Telegraph India - Tuesday , June 3 , 2008

Some doubting Thomases suggested that the LHC will produce nature’s most bizarre yet perfectly structured objects, the black holes. And the black holes, they claim, created in the LHC will eat up not only CERN but entire Europe, and eventually our planet. Black holes are known for their bottomless capacity to gobble because of their infinite gravitational attraction.

Cosmic rays consisting of fundamental particles hit the earth from all over the cosmos with energies even upto a million times the energy of the LHC. But nothing like the black hole phenomenon has happened, proving the physicist’s prediction right. Even if a mini black hole is fleetingly produced, it will “pop” in no time, bursting with finite energy that is easy to handle. Mini black holes (less than a few centimetres in size) do not have the gravitational appetite to “gobble” anything. They “pop” very very fast.

Full article…

Another’s Commentary

The markets are taking notice. Stock in companies that stand to profit from the LHC could take a hit in price if the hearing on Monday in Hawaii goes well.  Traders place your bets!

Tech giants use controversial project as test bed

Thu, 12 Jun 2008 13:51:59 - From MarketWatch.com:

More…

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Large_Hadron_Collider

We’re talking about the possibility of exterminating millions of species, billions of lives and ending that great messy blob of potential that is intelligent life in this part of the universe, not about whether some schoolkids are going to grow up ignorant. What is the acceptable risk? As for things published… In Darwin’s time you could find one person who accepted natural selection and ten thousand who disputed it, what does it matter? If *any* educated published physicist is actually worried about the LHC, he should be heard and refuted properly, over a sensible period of time corresponding to the seriousness of his claims being true. In this case, their claims being true would be incalculably catastrophic - but is anyone aware of ANY delay to this project caused by safety concerns? Construction started 13 years ago and has continued apace, with the only setbacks being due to funding and technical difficulties - and the safety reports are only coming out this year? Where’s the time for rebuttal? craigTheBrit (talk) 23:00, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

YouTube interview with Professor D. Otto E. Rossler by P.M. (a large German publication) in German. Dr. Rossler calculates possibly 50 months accretion of Earth by micro black hole: http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=_TjYobXKebM (A written interview, http://www.golem.de/0802/57477-4.html, translation at viewtopic.php?f=10&t=52, calculations at: )

:geek: Walter L. Wagner talks on BBC (2 minutes)

Interview on BBC World News (http://www.wiki1.net/groups/uploads/LargeHadronCollider/BBC_LHC.mp3) with Walter L. Wagner (http://www.lhcdefense.org, nuclear physicist and co-plaintiff)

:geek: Walter L. Wagner talks on KOA 850 AM (45 minutes)

Interview on KOA 850 AM (http://www.wiki1.net/groups/uploads/LargeHadronCollider/wlw20080327.wma) with Walter L. Wagner (http://www.lhcdefense.org, nuclear physicist and co-plaintiff)

NPR: Doomsday Fears for a Particle Accelerator http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=89265915

Inspiring

You Tube Video: Ebenonce - Atom Smasher ( Large Hadron Collider ): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOFSrS03wjE

You Tube Video: The LHC– the end of the world again?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7yZ5LEL5es&feature=related

LHC - world again sm.jpg
LHC - world again sm.jpg (5.32 KB) Viewed 740 times

:ugeek: Perspecitive

You Tube Video: The Large Hadron Collider - End of the Universe?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPxYdObyJ2A&feature=related

:geek: Educational:

You Tube Video: LHC - Large Hadron Collider - Messing with the unknown: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQYXMqEwRxc

LSAG (LHC Safety Assessment Group) What If: http://lhc2008.web.cern.ch/LHC2008/documents/LSAG.pdf

Humor:

You Tube Video: (from Ebenonce below): Black Hole Machine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60UVNS57iMo

You Tube Video: Large Hadron Collider Budget Meeting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neSnOYrJ5wU&NR=1

Safety and Risk Assessments

Arguably Propaganda http://public.web.cern.ch/public/en/LHC/Safety-en.html

Science http://www.risk-evaluation-forum.org/limits.htm

Peer Reviewed http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Large_Hadron_Collider

Risks Dismissed http://www.lhc.ac.uk/about-the-lhc/faqs.html

Prediction of possible microscopic black hole creation at Tev energies:

http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/hep-ph/pdf/0205/0205024v3.pdf

Collider created particles to be captured by Earth’s gravity:

http://www.livescience.com/environment/060919_black_holes.html

Credibility of Hawking Radiation Disputed:

2008 … this prediction is not without its problems… no very good responses to these concerns… completely alters the picture drawn by Hawking… http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/gr-qc/pdf/0503/0503052v1.pdf

2004 … 9.9% average doubt, ranging from 0% to 50% doubt by 15 physicists polled: http://www.lhcconcerns.com/#James_Blodgett, even before much of the peer reviewed credible rejection of Hawking Radiation was published

2003 … Yet this prediction rests on two dubious assumptions… no compelling theoretical case for or against radiation by black holes: http://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0304042

Professor Hawking speculates that black holes might sometimes shrink, decay, evaporate, Professor Albert Einstein considered such ideas to be not possible, against the laws of nature, not even light can escape a black hole.

CORRECTED: Dual Black Hole HOT explosion at RHIC:

http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/hep-th/pdf/0501/0501068v3.pdf We argue that the fireball observed at RHIC is (the analog of) a
dual black hole.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4357613.stm

CORRECTED: Bosenova COLD Bose-Einstein Condensate Implosion, Thousands of Unaccounted For Atoms, possible Creation of Stable, Highly Dense Exotic Matter.:

[Published 2001], University of Colorado, ERIC A. CORNELL AND CARL E. WIEMAN: http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/physics/laureates/2001/cornellwieman-lecture.pdf

http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/releases/tn6240.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bose_einstein_condensate#Unusual_characteristics

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosenova
In the particular experiment when a bosenova was first detected, this procedure caused the BEC to implode and shrink beyond detection, and then suddenly explode. In this explosion, about half of the atoms in the condensate seem to have disappeared from the experiment altogether, remaining undetected either in the cold particle remnants or in the expanding gas cloud produced.

Sancho V. Doe Complaint, US District Court, District of Hawaii:

http://www.wiki1.net/groups/uploads/LargeHadronCollider/SanchoComplaint.doc

http://www.wiki1.net/groups/uploads/LargeHadronCollider/SanchoJamesBlodgett1.doc

http://www.wiki1.net/groups/uploads/LargeHadronCollider/SanchoLuisSancho1.doc

http://www.wiki1.net/groups/uploads/LargeHadronCollider/SanchoMarkLeggett1.doc

http://www.wiki1.net/groups/uploads/LargeHadronCollider/SanchoPaulWDixon1.doc

http://www.wiki1.net/groups/uploads/LargeHadronCollider/SanchoRichardJWagner1.doc

http://www.wiki1.net/groups/uploads/LargeHadronCollider/SanchoRodSkinner1.doc

http://www.wiki1.net/groups/uploads/LargeHadronCollider/SanchoWalterLWagner1.doc

Articles:

Is this summer our last? http://thechronicleherald.ca/Science/1050767.html

Gauging a Collider’s Odds of Creating a Black Hole http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/15/science/15risk.html?_r=1&ref=science&oref=slogin

Aspen Times News, Maintaining a blissful bubble of ignorance http://www.aspentimes.com/article/20080414/COLUMN/927993017

LA Times, New atom-smasher could fill gaps in scientific knowledge — or open a black hole http://www.latimes.com/news/science/la-sci-collider13apr13,0,7765588.story?page=1

Fire up the Doomsday Machine: http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20080411/NEWS/804110444/-1/newssitemap

Of big bangs and expensive lawyers http://gauntlet.ucalgary.ca/story/12400

After life http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/guy_dammann/2008/04/after_life.html

Global destruction? Let’s stick with chocolate http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/news/theeditorialpage/story.html?id=f7e973ad-ad1f-49df-ba67-dbfdd8c37cfa

If LHC research fails, it may shrink the Earth? http://www.internationalreporter.com/News-3458/If-LHC-research-fails,-it-may-shrink-the-Earth-.html

Raising the Alarm Over Massive and Dangerous New Experiment; Where Is the Oversight on CERN? http://www.itwire.com/content/view/16440/1064/

Black hole machine could destroy planet: lawsuit http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080405/black_hole_080405/20080405?hub=SciTech

Will collider break ground — or destroy the Earth? http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2004314373_super29.html

NewScientist with Informed Blogs http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn13555-particle-smasher-not-a-threat-to-the-earth.html

Spooky Science http://www.thetelegram.com/index.cfm?sid=122550&sc=80&comments=submit&#thankyou

Apocalypse No! Is the U.S. government liable for the end of the world? http://www.slate.com/id/2188012/

Mini-black hole is smallest ever but still strong http://www.topix.com/tech/2008/04/mini-black-hole-is-smallest-ever-but-still-strong/p2#lastPost

Asking a Judge to Save the World, and Maybe a Whole Lot More http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/29/science/29collider.html?_r=2&hp&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

Comentary http://www.thesequitur.com/content/view/2205/43/

Legal http://poligazette.com/2008/03/30/what-if-the-world-ended-and-nobody-showed-up/

Legal http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/03/27/823924.aspx?p=1

Legal http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/29/science/29collider.html?em&ex=1207022400&en=fc4bb1d73347fe4e&ei=5087%0A

Start Up Schedule http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/33600

Risk http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg16322014.700-a-black-hole-ate-my-planet.html

Not Fair and Balanced Reporting http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/2765

TimesOnline: Big Bang at the atomic lab after scientists get their maths wrong http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1626728.ece

NowPublic: The Potential for Danger in Particle Collider Experiments http://www.nowpublic.com/technology/potential-danger-particle-collider-experiments

Practical Ethics News 3-29-2008: Extinction Risks and Particle Physics: When Are They Worth it? http://www.practicalethicsnews.com/practicalethics/2008/03/extinction-risk.html?cid=109661620

ZPEnergy.com http://www.zpenergy.com/modules.php?name=News&file=print&sid=2832

Wikipedia Topics:

Large Hadron Colliderhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_Hadron_Collider

Micro Black Holehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro_black_hole

Blogs:

LHC Dangerous? http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=11690&p=616666#p616666

Black holes, zero point energy, and risks to Earth http://www.zpenergy.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=2847

Is CERN safe? http://circleof13.blogspot.com/2008/02/is-cern-safe.html

http://www.newscientist.com/commenting/browse.ns?articleId=dn13555&page=3&referer=%2Farticle%2Fdn13555-particle-smasher-not-a-threat-to-the-earth.html

http://opiniondominion.blogspot.com/2006/01/black-holes-at-cern-collider-will.html

http://backreaction.blogspot.com/2008/03/dangerous-implications.html

Risks:

My research [of existing published material] indicates [based on some assuptions] a risk of up to 10% of a single MBH being captured by Earth’s gravity per month of LHC operation. Supporting assumptions and estmates: CERN states that microscopic black holes might be created at a rate of one per second (http://public.web.cern.ch/public/en/LHC/Safety-en.html, http://www.usatoday.com/tech/columnist/ … sion_N.htm). Assuming that that CERN’s prediction is correct, [experimental physicist Greg Landsberg at Brown University in Providence, R.I.] estimated in 2004 that 10 million microscopic black holes could be created by LHC (Large Hadron Collider) in a year and 1 in a million would be captured by Earth’s gravity if Hawking Radiation fails to cause the HMBs to evaporate (http://www.livescience.com/environment/ … holes.html). James Blodgett published survey results from 15 physicists estimating odds between 0% and 50% that Hawking Radiation would fail, with an average estimate of 9.9% for failure (http://www.lhcconcerns.com). However [Greg Landsberg] also estimated that a single stable microscopic black hole would grow so slowly that it would not be a threat to Earth, though other physicists estimate much faster growth patterns. –Jtankers (talk) 22:10, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Professor Dr. Otto E. Rossler warns that the experiment may result in the black hole destroying the planet within 50 million years. His own calculations indicate that this time frame may in fact be closer to 50 months. . . (http://www.golem.de/0802/57477-4.html, translation at viewtopic.php?f=10&t=52)

Dr. Raj Baldev, April 10, 2008, International Reporter: http://www.internationalreporter.com/News-3458/If-LHC-research-fails,-it-may-shrink-the-Earth-.html “But the scientists are fully aware that it is not a project without a grave risk to the life of the Earth.”